Initiation

topic posted Fri, August 10, 2007 - 7:11 AM by  M
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Hi,
I would like to know more about Goetia, its practices and rituals.
Does anyone know of any good books / groups / bookstores in London?
Thanks
posted by:
M
offline M
United Kingdom
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  • Re: Initiation

    Sat, August 11, 2007 - 3:35 PM
    Books;

    The Lesser Key of Solomon
    Grand Grimoire
    Demonographia
    Sworn Book of Honorius
    Aleister Crowley's Illustrated Goetia

    That should get you going.
  • M
    M
    offline 1

    Re: Initiation

    Wed, August 15, 2007 - 10:18 AM
    Thanks. I have started to have look at two of them already
    The Grand Grimoire
    Sworn Book of Honorius

    The energy comming up when I read them is extremely intense. Have you felt that as well?
    • Re: Initiation

      Wed, August 15, 2007 - 7:47 PM
      personally I think the books themselves have no power besides shaping your thoughts. when I first got into magic, cracking open those grimoires was transgressive... there is a certain line you cross if you decide to work with infernal spirits.

      now I can read them like any other book and I pick them apart - "why does this work this way? what is the meaning of this?"...

      ATM I don't have anywhere to practice, nor do I have anything that is in dire need of that level of firepower. nowadays if I'm gonna work with nasty spirits it's gonna be because I'm hanging out in a cremation ground.
    • Re: Initiation

      Thu, August 16, 2007 - 5:59 PM
      "The energy comming up when I read them is extremely intense. Have you felt that as well?"

      Naaah. I'm actually skeptical of them. I find them funny rather than scary. However I'm studying more modern ways of doing the same things, ways that dont seem so ludicrous, and so I can actually get into the correct spirit (before it gets into me, heh :)

      I do enjoy collecting nice editions of them though. I have also for example, copies of Pharaons Liber Niger Legionis and Grimoire of the Spirit of the Place, and other hard to get works.

      If they work for you, then by all means use them. I believe that the specifics are not important, thats how come there is more than one grimoire. What matters is that they produce the required psychological headspace that works with your individual headspace. So to some extents, the only rule is "If it works....".

      The one caution I would have, is that you dont allow yourself to be taken over by it. I think Crowley's term was "obsession". A medieval person might have viewed this as possession, but I agree with him that "obsession" is a better word.

      Make sure that you banish properly, and that what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas, and doesnt cross over into your regular life.

      Whether you call a certain spirit "Furfur" or "FooFoo", however, I think is probably meaningless.
      • Re: Initiation

        Tue, August 21, 2007 - 8:11 PM
        Hi.. I am new to this tribe as well as a few others.

        TY for the reading list. One question that crosses my mind from reading the above....How do you banish properly?

        I am guilty of laziness I suppose..by not searching through the reading right away.

        and why do u think (using the phrase) what happens in vegas should stay in vegas? I do understand the need for it ...but in your opinion and experience should it be absolutely that way all the time?

        ty in advance.
        • Re: Initiation

          Tue, August 21, 2007 - 8:31 PM
          I found one article I didn't need to get to far before one perspective was laid out.

          Concerning the Dangers of Magick

          Note: I often receive questions about the 'dangers' of magick, so I thought I would post this excellent article on real and perceived dangers of goetic evocations.

          The below article was posted to the Dark Lodge of the Desert group by Goldtrend in Sept 2003. If you are interested in joining this group or would like more information about the article, please email him.
          The Dangers of Magick by Goldtrend

          Much of the "dangers" of magick is an exaggeration, brought on in part by ignorance. There is also a strong fear of devils, demons, and dark forces promoted by the strong general Christian background of the US and Hollywood horror films.

          I think we differ on the idea of banishment. I have had some experiences with spirits I did not want to deal with....In hindsight I think they just wanted some quality time or were relaying a message. But then again I don't ordinarily summon.
          • Re: Initiation

            Sat, August 25, 2007 - 12:46 PM
            "Much of the "dangers" of magick is an exaggeration, brought on in part by ignorance. There is also a strong fear of devils, demons, and dark forces"

            I work on the basis that these demons arent real; at least, not in the christian concept anyway. I see them as self-contained, dependent thought-clusters, which live in our minds, and travel as ideas. The same way e.g. the cold sore virus lives in our brains. Of us, yet not of us.

            So I'm not expecting to be dragged down to hell with a pitchfork up my ass.

            I'm more concerned with the concept of obsession. As a psychological danger. Our minds are very programmable and plastic, and we can easily contaminate our regular life if we dont set clear limits to the operation of these demons. They should be invoked only in Vegas, and they should be left in Vegas, i.e. in the ritual space/time.

            Fantasies are fun, and can even be therapeutic, but indulging with them obsessively can be harmful.

            Its a simple danger; which can most simply be described as not confusing reality with fantasy, or reality with unreality. But because demons can have a reality of a sort, by themselves, its not quite that simple. I hope that gets across what I mean.

            Banishing is basically doing what it takes to clear your head and re-enter consensus reality. Its not so much commanding another being to go away.
        • Re: Initiation

          Sat, August 25, 2007 - 12:36 PM
          "...How do you banish properly? ....and why do u think (using the phrase) what happens in vegas should stay in vegas?"


          Any method which works is fine. Chaos Magicians just have a bellylaugh. Wiccans stuff themselves with cakes 'n'ale (probably non-alcoholic), Thelemites do the pentagram. (Lets ..doo.. the pent, agram, agaaaain).

          I think its important because if you walk around thinking youre covered in demons, or you have immortal powers, youre likely to get in serious trouble. Its a recipe for schizophrenia, in my estimation. Look at Jim Jones or Koresh. I'll bet they didnt banish :)

          Its kinda the same reason youre not supposed to meditate while driving. Altered states arent the best thing to use for normal waking consciousness. Also telling your boss youre going to cast a spell on him might have unfortunate consequences. If you read a biography of Crowley, you'll find legions of acolytes who ended up mad, committing suicide, or both.

          Happened to Parsons lot and to Achad also.

          But thats my take; follow your star.

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